Comments on Lagonda in English: Normal

By the way: the phenomena you describe all have to...

2007-09-03T00:09:00.000-07:00

By the way: the phenomena you describe all have to do with the progressive tendency to avoid confronting people with their own behaviour --- all in the name of so-called liberty.

Before you start liberating people, you better make sure they understand the manual.

@mark: Thank you for your elaborate article. It is...

2007-09-03T00:05:00.000-07:00

@mark: Thank you for your elaborate article. It is nice to experience how blogging is taken much more seriously in the english-speaking world than it is in Holland. I will pen a response when I have the time.

@anonymous: Well, I'm not blaming immigration per se --- I'm actually blaming our own mentality and choices in response to immigration. There are a thousand things we should have done with our new fellow citizens, education being chief among these, but somehow we deluded ourselves into thinking that we could simultaneously a) avoid having to painfully confront the newcomers with their shortcomings, and b) become a morally superior person for not seeking this confrontation. We thought it was a win-win scenario. And, well, it wasn't.

I largely agree with the comments made in this thr...

2007-09-02T19:52:00.000-07:00

I largely agree with the comments made in this thread, but I'd argue that the negative changes in many Western societies are not entirely due to immigration.

Take my mid-sized Canadian city. Twenty years ago it was all white (with a few Natives); it's still basically all white (with a few natives and a few professional-class Chinese and Indians). But the negative changes are apparent: some areas are a bit scary; children can't go around the neighbourhood by themselves; you have to survey a park for undesirables before you let your children play there.

The causes? Drugs and the welfare class, as far as I can tell.

But your story about the Garenvelders reminds me of something else. In the neighbourhood I used to live in there was middle-aged mentally retarded fellow who hung around the shops and the little cafe and chat with whoever had the patience for him. The people generally looked out for him: the girls at the cafe would give him coffee - but no more than one cup of caffeinated coffee a day: "You know how excited you get, John, when you get too much caffeine." And they didn't let him beg: "John, you mustn't ask people for money."

Ten or twelve years later, the neighbourhood has changed; it's gone upscale. The little cafe was driven out of business by Starbucks and its groovy competitor across the street; the old watch shop and fish-and-chip have gone, replaced by condos; the unfashionable restaurant has been replaced by a trendy organic grocery store. John is still there, but nobody takes him in hand, and he begs all the time.

It's a cultural change. The new people who set the tone of the neighbourhood probably think more highly of themselves than their unassuming predecessors, but they're not better people at all.

Lagonda, thanks for making these articles availabl...

2007-09-02T14:50:00.000-07:00

Lagonda, thanks for making these articles available in English.

I've referred to your thoughts on the situation in Holland here.

I can relate greatly to this post as I have seen m...

2007-08-31T16:23:00.000-07:00

I can relate greatly to this post as I have seen my own homeland, California, basically destroyed by "diversity" and "multiculturalism." When I was small (35-40 years ago) we had a quite spectacular culture -- it really was a paradise. The culture was resolutely what is now called "Anglo" -- in those days it was just American. We had a high degree of income equality, we had the best public education system in the US, the best infrastructure, the lowest crime, the best of everything. A simple, uneducated working class man like my father could support a family of nine -- yes nine! -- on one small income. We were the envy of much of the world -- the world that was enchanted by blonde surfers, Beach Boys music, Hollywood premiers, margaritas around the pool -- carefree and casual lifestyle in the sun.

Then came mass immigration from less successful cultures, and the great "benefits" of "diversity", meaning mostly that we couldn't ever speak up about what was happening in our communities or else we were "racist." Town after town changed radically, almost overnight -- from English speaking to Spanish speaking, in the blink of an eye. (How could this be "diversity" if all the towns were changing over to the same dominant culture? The "progressives" never explained this contradiction, just like they never explain any of their ideological contradictions, ever.)Many parts of my once-great homeland now look like a Third World country. The educational system is bottom of the class, the once-gleaming infrastructure is falling apart, the gap between rich and poor is astronomical, our children can't play outside unsupervised until 9 o'clock in the evening, as I once did, because it's not safe, even in the richest neighborhoods -- in short all the positives I knew from my childhood are gone. If you are rich or at least affluent you can still afford to live in "Anglo" America here but that is certainly not attainable by the average Jane or Joe American. They either must live with the chaotic Third Worlders -- or flee to other states. Most of them just flee. I too am the resident of a ruined homeland.

Hehehe, yep! That's exactly what's going on.You'll...

2007-08-31T14:40:00.000-07:00

Hehehe, yep! That's exactly what's going on.

You'll probably like my previous piece also:
Shawarma!

Stay tuned! More pieces on the mindset of the progressives will follow.

This is a great post. It really encapusulates ever...

2007-08-31T12:16:00.000-07:00

This is a great post. It really encapusulates every i despise about 'progressives' and reminded me of something i saw on tv in the UK about a year ago.

Kirsty Wark is the presenter of the BBC news programme 'Newsnight'. The BBC on the whole is quite liberal/progressive and Kirsy Wark is a prime example of the sanctimonious self-righteous lefty. Anyway, she made a series of programmes in which she travelled around the new entrant countries to the EU. In Slovenia she found an idyllic society where young people could afford to buy homes and enjoy their beautiful country. But Kirsty - with her eyes shining brightly with a greater wisdom asked the young women she was speaking to: How was Slovenia going to deal with Immigration, Diversity and Multiculturalism. Kirsty, and the UK, are obviously at the vanguard of these wonderful developments and the gospel must be spread.

You see, Kirsty represents the media elite in the UK and she has personally benefited from the fact that many English people feel like strangers in their own country. And this must be the enlightened, virtuous destination of Slovenia and all European peoples. The native 'bourgeois' European who goes to work, looks after their family and has no interest in trangressive art must become a minority and shall enjoy no peace or community.

I'm not sure I agree with the "winner's complex"-t...

2007-08-30T15:23:00.000-07:00

I'm not sure I agree with the "winner's complex"-theory . To me, the main goal of the progressives was, is, and always will be to bother the "bourgeois" society. If this attitude has led to beneficial effects in the past, like emancipation and gay rights, that's great, but it doesn't mean they where "winners" --- they were just right for the wrong reasons. Their past results didn't make them feel morally superior; they have always felt morally superior. More essays on the progressive mindset will follow.

Furthermore, I'm not comparing Islamists to retards (even though, let's face it, some Islamists DO behave like retards). I was actually making the point that regular civilians are perfectly willing and able to adapt their behaviour to a group of people that have trouble fitting in --- even a group as bothersome as people with Down's syndrome. And even though muslims are not retards, they do have trouble fitting in, and also exists at the fringes of society. They have trouble expressing themselves, they have trouble understanding Dutch. They have trouble finding their way around society, and every day they are confronted with a thousand things they don't understand.

Dutch civilians are always accused by politicians that they haven't done enough to accomodate immigrants --- I'm trying to make the point here that there is in fact a lot civilians are willing (and have been willing) to accomodate, and that there's a reasonable limit to this willingness. This limit has been completely and purposefully disregarded and violated by the progressive thinkers that have shaped our society. In case of trying to accomodate muslim people that had trouble fitting in, the Dutch civilians were tied with their hands behind their backs, because we were not allowed to say certain things, express certain doubts, criticize certain thoughts or correct certain behaviour.

It could be said that progressives are afflicted w...

2007-08-30T11:02:00.000-07:00

It could be said that progressives are afflicted with "winner’s complex," a term used by Gorbachev to describe the United States after the Cold War. The progressives were right in the past about many things, but now they are going too far, while continuing to crave the feeling of moral superiority and triumph.

Of course, their immediate response to a challenge such as what you wrote is to make the "slippery slope" argument and accuse their opponents of wanting to go back to the bad old days when they were right. This is especially the case in the U.S. where many people can still remember legal segregation.

By the way, the comparisons of Islamists to "retards" is a bit problematic, and I would expect that if your essay became widely read that many would seize upon this to call your broader message into question.

Great article (when it comes to style) but really ...

2007-08-28T11:22:00.000-07:00

Great article (when it comes to style) but really depressing in it's point, and to be honest, I think it will end up with something that we already saw in ex-yugoslavia :(

Excellent translation, although "satellite discs" ...

2007-08-28T07:21:00.000-07:00

Excellent translation, although "satellite discs" should really be "satellite dishes".

The article itself is great of course, but it already was in Dutch so no change there.